Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Four Decades at Gonzaga, a conversation with Gonzaga University President Thane McCullough. In this podcast, we will hear from Gonzaga's 26th president, reflecting on his experiences over his nearly four decades in the Gonzaga community and talking about what's next.
I'm your host, Sarah Schwering, a two time alumna and Presidential communications specialist. Here at Guests. In this episode, we'll share some more stories of the biggest accomplishments from his time as president. Welcome, Dr. McCullough.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Thank you very much, Sarah.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: So let's talk about some of the successes, achievements when it comes to our academic programming, when it comes to our schools. At the end of April, we're going to be inducted into Phi Beta Kappa. What has that meant to you to get the news that this many, many year hope and goal is coming to fruition, particularly in your last year? What will that mean for the institution?
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Well, for me, it's a little bit related to an earlier piece that we were talking about, which is the importance of the Wolson center and aesthetics. I think that there is a discussion, if you will, in the academy about the uselessness in some people's view of, in particular the humanities. This has emerged in political discourse, it's emerged in in other places and spaces. And it's, I think, driven first of all by a fundamental misunderstanding of what the humanities are and what they do. At the heart of a holistic educational experience is an appreciation for a very broad based education that does take into account the importance of philosophy and the importance of critical thinking and logic and ethics. It does take into account an appreciation for history and the lessons that we don't have to relearn over and over again if we understand what history has to teach us. It is about appreciating political science and it really does look at the social sciences and the arts. And Phi Beta Kappa, which is the oldest honor society in the country, it was founded in 1776 at the college of William and Mary, is a honor society that really recognizes the importance of the humanities and the arts and sciences as the core of a comprehensive educational experience and seeks to celebrate and lift up institutions that are clearly very committed to continuing to make the humanities and the arts and sciences the core of their educational offerings at the undergraduate level. And so we worked with colleagues of the faculty for many years to grow in our understanding of how we could continue to make good decisions as an institution that would continue to enhance the educational experience of all of our students while clearly underscoring the importance of the humanities and their relevance to the educational experience of our students in a way that Phi Beta Kappa would say, yes, you know, you do belong in kind of the pantheon of institutions in our country that understand the importance of this. Sometimes I think the term liberal arts, because liberal has been used politically, is again, you know, sort of misunderstood. But the idea that's at the heart of the liberal arts and the humanities is it's about freedom. It's about freeing the mind to be more capable of and expansive of exploring the many areas of human experience. And you can't gain that freedom if you don't have a familiarity or an understanding of that territory. So this is very much about empowerment and human capability, which is, in my view, fundamental and at the heart of the intellectual endeavor. So Phi Beta Kappa is a great recognition. It demanded of us a number of things that I think were very complementary with our goals. So yeah, it was great.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: So you had mentioned earlier that a lot of students are kind of being creative, if you will, in their degree path, you know, thinking about marrying maybe more of an academic focus with some kind of personal interests, creative interests and inquiries. So one of those shifts, if you will, over the last few years has been the development of certificate programs and center for lifelong learning and thinking about ways in which students, both at the undergraduate level as well as the graduate, doctoral, more non traditional students, are looking for what's next or looking for how they can be challenged academically. So talk to me about how those type of offerings, diversity of offerings came to be. Why was that of interest to you and to academic leadership to start thinking differently when it came to what we offer?
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Well, and I think that this is still, you know, early in its evolution and development. But to me, this is really about expanding in new ways our offerings to new populations as well. So it's important to say from the outset that while generating a certain amount of revenue through whatever programs we're offering is an important piece, these programs don't generate a huge amount of revenue. They're. They're really more about expanding short course offerings to populations that we might not otherwise reach. I was a fan of this kind of work from a long time ago, as I thought in particular about how we could continue to remain connected to our alumni. There are so many different variations of why, you know, an institution might offer certificates or non credit generating courses. Some of them are about helping people to remain sharp in their profession, or maybe they have a new interest that you can meet. But I think that this is about recognizing that not everybody has the time or the resources to necessarily involve themselves in a multi year, multi course approach, but that people are out there that do seek to broaden and deepen their understanding of various sort of terrains, if you will. And I actually think it's a really important space for us to be in. And my hope is that we can continue to expand. The kinds of creative work that's going on there right now is really cool. It involves both online courses, but also some study abroad kind of experiences. I think there are populations of people who may even be retired, but they want to remain intellectually and socially active. And these kinds of courses can provide an opportunity for them to. To do that. So I'm very enthusiastic about that and I'm hopeful as well that we can continue to see ways in which we can remain connected to our alumni and gather other new friends into the community that way.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: So during your tenure, there's been a lot, obviously different programs and majors and minors and concentrations that have been created and evolved. But the School of Leadership Studies and the School of Health Sciences in particular, those two schools really being either evolved or created during your time. Talk to me about how the development of those schools. The evolution has changed our student makeup, has continued to increase our academic prominence in the space of higher ed, attracting new faculty and staff. What has that meant for the institution?
[00:08:12] Speaker B: For me, it's the continuation of the Gonzaga story, if you will, from an academic perspective. So I really think about it broadly as we are a place that is not afraid to continue to innovate and evolve with the changing needs and the opportunities as we identify them. Our current School of Health Sciences is the latest in an evolution from what was once the School of Professional Studies and became the School of Nursing and Human Physiology. It's an acknowledgement that for our region and for our country, healthcare issues that I mentioned earlier are acute. And it's intended to be a structure within which we can now continue to grow and develop existing and new programs that are going to contribute in that space. The demand for nursing education is enormous. It far exceeds our capabilities. So I think ultimately the vision would be to see opportunities for expansion there. In the previously mentioned building on the Peninsula, there's space that we're currently thinking can be a new home for our Doctor of Nurse Anesthesiology practice program. And that's a area where there's tremendous need and very, very good career opportunities for those who are successful. So I think a lot of this comes down to paying close attention to what's happening in the environment and then trying to create structures that are going to be responsive to it. Leadership, again, was a tremendous area for us of growth in the earliest part of this new century. And it continues to evolve. And so I think there's always an interest and a desire to try to figure out what's the best configuration of bringing people together to support the kinds of programs that are going to meet needs out there. And that continues to be the case for them. But I think it's the case for all of our programs, actually. I mean, we're going to be seeing evolution of new programs in engineering. There are new specialties in the school of law. The school of business is looking at some possibilities that really are informed by artificial intelligence. There's just a lot of things going on that are attempts to continue to remain current and relevant and contemporary with all the issues that are kind of emerging in the culture right now. And that's important. We want to be a place that people say, I'm going to get this great experience and this wonderful education and watch some awesome basketball and baseball and volleyball. But we also want them to feel like, at the end of the day, their investment allowed them to go on and do the kinds of work that they want to do, and that is going to be rewarding to them. That's the iterative process that we are constantly going through as we think about new schools.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: So earlier you spoke to our focus on international students, both in terms of recruitment, enrollment, support. When they're here. Talk to me about Gonzaga Global, our more recent initiative when it comes to identifying students outside of our own country who may see Gonzaga as their home. Talk to me about the vision behind more of an emphasis in that area. What successes have been, what you're looking forward to there?
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, this is a very dynamic area because we have wanted to grow the population of students that's coming from other countries to the university. For a period of time, this has been an area where we've had ebbs and flows over our history. So in the last couple of decades of. Of the 20th century, we had populations of students from different parts of the world in varying, you know, numbers. But trying to achieve a more consistent number of students who are coming to us from other countries has been sort of the goal behind the center for Global Engagement, as well as also hosting more international scholars and people who are not students necessarily, but they can actually contribute to and want to learn in our environment as well. Well, there's a way of bringing the world to you that I think is at the heart of the center for Global Engagement, as well as bringing our students out into the world. That is at the heart of it. I've been very impressed with the professionals that we have in the area and in particular, the ways in which they support our students from other countries, because it's been really, really rewarding to watch, and the numbers of students who've come to us and. And who have returned because they enjoy being here and they feel like they do have a good experience. It's been very cool. It's done a lot to expand and deepen the cultural experience of all of our students. And I hope that things continue to move in such a way that we can be a place where people want to come and study, and that the Spokane region more broadly is a place that also benefits from having international students participating with various elements of this sort of larger city community.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Let's shift to talk about athletics, our athletic programs, every sport, all of our student athletes, coaches, staff. Talk to me about what you think the magic has been of our institution that has really made our athletic program so successful. What have been some of the most important things that you think have attributed to our success in the area of athletics?
[00:14:03] Speaker B: It's a combination, from my perspective, of art and science. At the heart of our athletic endeavor are great student athletes and the coaches who work with them. You know, there's also a little bit of an underpinning of belief in what's possible. That has to be part of it. I always say, you know, we have to be people of hope if you want to do this, because there are many, many factors that go into whether or not an individual student athlete or a team is successful or not. But I think we've had a remarkable head coach in Mark Few. We've had remarkable assistant coaches who have contributed significantly to the success of the program. On our men's side, we've had tremendous longevity and durability in coach Lisa Fortier and her staff. Her coaches have been with her for. For entire decade. You know, the expectations and I think the hopes for our basketball teams are very high. And part of that comes with this consistency year after year after year. But people don't realize that these coaches and teams are rebuilding themselves each year because we lose student athletes and we gain student athletes, and they're all in the process of development. To see that consistency year after year after year is very much a part of the story. And I do think, essentially comes down to the people. I really do. I mean, you have to be really good at what you do, and you have to work with really good student athletes. Sports in America are something that brings people together, and it's something about which people get really passionate. And so we have huge fans that have never been to Spokane. They don't know anything about Gonzaga University other than the Gonzaga Bulldogs. And we have huge detractors who are also in that same camp. I mean, you know, people decide that they love a team, and then they are just all in and that's it. But that emotionality is often a way of uniting people. And it's also can be a little challenging at times, too, because people get really passionate. But I do think that it has allowed us to have a kind of visibility and to open the door for people who otherwise would never know about us in ways that have really been instrumental to our success. The other thing that I think is not maybe necessarily talked about quite as much, but it's a little bit of our narrative. We have people working at the institution who really believe that character matters. And I think that, win or lose, who you are as a person day in, day out, how you treat other people, it's important to us. And I think it comes through. I think it comes through the way that our student athletes speak when they're being interviewed. I think it comes through in the way that our fans behave. So I'm really proud of that, too, because I think it's kind of one of those. It may seem a little corny, but it's a little bit of an image of a place where you can do great stuff and actually have a shot at the sort of brass ring, if you will, and be a good person. And those things are not mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure that everybody is convinced of that. So I'm proud of the ways in which so many times people have showed up, and even when things go wrong, how. How you respond and. And what you try to do to fix it matters, too.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: So during your tenure, our men's basketball team achieved their first number one ranking of many first Final Four appearances, national championship appearances. How did that feel, you know, during each of those milestones? You know, as an alum, how did it feel as a leader here, member of the Spokane community? Talk to me about how that felt.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Well, you know, the thing that you have as president to resist is taking full credit for everything that happens, because, of course, you are proud, and you want to associate those elements of success to the ways in which you're doing your work and all of that. But, of course, to be fair, what it speaks to me of is this consistent, just relentless pursuit of continued upward success and we want to be a better place in every expression of what we do. We want that athletically, we want that academically. We want that in every expression of our work. And so it's that commitment, it's that willingness to say, it is possible for me as a head coach to take the bait and go to another institution and try to help their program be successful. But maybe I can do that here, you know, and maybe there's something about the consistency and the durability, and as long as we can continue to work together to figure out how to build on that success, what more do you really want? I am particularly grateful that there has been so much of a commitment to that, because that, for me, is the real story. It's not, did they win a national championship? It's that you can actually say that we have now been to the NC2A 16 years in a row. And by the way, that does correspond with my tenure.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Just saying.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: But, you know, it is a remarkable feat. There are just so many schools that would love to just have a shot at it. And, you know, because of that consistency, everybody, of course, wants more. But I do think that people understand through that experience internally, that you don't always get what you want, but that doesn't mean that it's worthless. There's a lot of really cool things that have happened along the way. I will say that that first year of the first number one ranking, we were ranked number one the very last week of the ranking, so that became our, you know, perennial ranking. But I was interviewed on radio and media, and people were like, you know, how long do you think this can last? And all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, you know what? I just see this as we've reached another plateau and now we need to keep moving. And that's indeed what they did. I will say, too, anecdotally, I'm most proud of what the team did in the year where Covid really impacted us, and we made it to the championship game that year as well, because that was a really, really, really hard year. We weren't allowed to have spectators in the building, and people supported that team, and that team went through so much to try to continue to be successful. And it was just a demonstration of the incredible talent that we had all the way around. Just a really hard year. And yet it was also a really phenomenal year. You know, it goes to the point we can do hard things, and we need to be able to do hard things, and life sometimes hands you hard stuff to do. And the Measure of whether or not you really able to or not, I think, is how committed are you. And that's the story of this time.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: It is wild to think back to that time. We actually had our two sons at the time were in just coming out of first and third grade, and we had the cardboard cutouts made of them for the stands, and we still have them. You think back to the tenacity to get through that time as a community and to get to that level of athletic achievement.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Amidst all of that, I remember piping. They finally realized they needed to pipe in the noise of the crowd, you know, to give people that experience of that there's actually people here. It's just such a weird thing to try to do all that there too. I think, you know, our fans and our supporters really showed up and it was pretty impressive.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: So we talked earlier about more on the academic side, facilities and spaces on the athletic side. We've seen a lot of growth and change in that regard. The Volker center for Athletic Achievement, Stephens center for Tennis and Golf. Wolf Family hall of Honor. John and Donna Luger Soccer fields. Scott and Liz Morris baseball, indoor baseball training facility. There's a lot, when we think about across our athletic programs, support of our students. I remember when I first toured Volker, looking at the academic support and the nutrition support on the court, in the classroom, in the community, really, that focus on the holistic support of our student athletes. So talk to me a little bit about the athletic spaces that have come to be during your tenure due to benefaction and support. How has that really helped to support our athletic success?
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Well, the earliest facility that came online during my time was the Stevens center, which is our indoor tennis and golf facility. And it is a beautiful facility primarily dedicated to tennis, just by virtue of the need for square footage. We went from not having a tennis court on campus to having one of the most beautiful indoor tennis facilities on the West Coast. That facility was entirely funded by benefaction, but it also was the response to a request that came from families, particularly in places like California and Texas, where the weather allows you to do more outdoor. But if you don't have an indoor facility in Spokane, you're not playing tennis most of the year. And so that was a great example early of how generous people identifying together with you a need made something possible and was truly, truly gratifying. But all of our athletic facilities have been made possible by supporters and the expansion of the athletics facility in what has been our Martin center atrium to become the hall of Honor Combined with the development of the Volker center, which again, the namesake of this wonderful couple who are just so fabulously supportive of Gonzaga. These are all responses to identified needs that are attempts to try to help our student athletes and our programs be better, not only as athletes, but as student athletes, I'd say academically as well as athletically. And this goes back to the issue of relationships. How important the relationships that our coaches and our players develop with people who want to see them succeed and also the desire to continue to see us build on the success because we have an indoor practice facility for baseball that we have wanted for a very, very long time. Again, because of the weather in Spokane, we have teams that begin playing, you know, in February in other parts of the country. And we're sitting here in snow. How are we doing this? So it's the relationship between benefactors and coaches and supporters of the sport and the student athletes that make all that possible. And, and I do think that one of the things that many of our supporters recognize is that sports allows people who otherwise don't necessarily have a way to experience the university an opportunity to do that. And to be a spectator and to be involved with our student athletes is really, really fun and a special way of having that involvement. So I am so pleased and so grateful because we're probably going to be a regional site for FIFA in 20. And that is absolutely due to the support of benefactors who have created for us the possibility to develop these, you know, world class soccer fields. And it is just so, so fun. And that is going to allow not just Gonzaga, but the community, you know, an opportunity to be involved in really truly a global event. It's phenomenal. So just so many things that become possible even beyond the more specific interests of our programs.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: So the last piece I want to touch on with regard to athletics is the move to the PAC 12. So you talked about that earlier. When it comes to potential partnerships with state institutions that we haven't necessarily had before, that's a long time coming out of the wcc. Right. Talk to me about that decision to change to the PAC 12. What are you excited about for the institution? There's a lot, obviously, that went into that decision. Talk to me about that.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: I think what it comes down to from my perspective, is opportunity that expresses itself in many forms. The success of our programs has allowed us to lay claim to a level of achievement and endurance, if you will, around some of these sports that is the envy of other colleges and universities, but is also very attractive to leagues that are Seeking to evolve and develop. It has to be said that the world of collegiate athletics is changing and it's evolving and most of the implications of those evolutions are going to bring with them greater costs, greater expenses. So part of this is driven by the question, how do we continue to provide for our student athletes and for the experience of our supporters this kind of nationally respected and capable level of achievement and manage to afford it at the same time? And the only way that I think that really can occur is by figuring out how to bring more resources to bear. We will continue to need the support of everybody, our fans and the season ticket holders and, and all of the people who sponsor our sports and, you know, just every single component. But we have to continue to create new opportunities. And those are the concerns that are shared by many institutions. So the PAC12 has a lot of opportunity in our view, because it remains for us a regional and not a, you know, spread across the country kind of proposition. I think there are real opportunities for us to partner with like minded people and institutions. Even though, as I say, the institutions are state institutions in higher education, we share a lot in terms of what we're all trying to do and be. You know, we want the same things for our students and so how can we continue to help one another be effective in our work is part of the opportunity that I think is here. It is going to bring new challenges too. I mean, nothing is free, you know. But I think our view was, notwithstanding the challenges, the opportunities are still greater and the chance to continue to develop new financial resource opportunities as well was greater by making a move. And we have a lot of respect for all of the colleagues at the West Coast Conference. I have formed friendships there and I think that there is a respect and appreciation for who we are and why we made the decision. Because I've also always tried to be really clear about these realities and very transparent with people as I could. And so I think it doesn't mean that everybody likes it, but it's not the same as not understanding.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know this for certain, but I'm pretty confident that our 80 year undefeated football season is probably leading the Pac 12. So, you know, I think that's true. I think that's probably true. I'll fact check that. Let's talk a bit about supporting our students with regard to inclusive excellence. During your tenure as president, the institution hired its first chief diversity officer. Expanded resources across all departments and divisions, most especially student affairs, academic affairs, leadership at the cabinet level. Talk to me about why it was of fundamental importance to you and priority to be thinking about how our students, our faculty, staff, are supported. When it comes to inclusivity, it comes.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Back for me again to mission. I mean, the origin story of Catholic higher education in this country was that there were immigrant populations that were being discriminated against, and Catholic societies, sisters and brothers and priests, orders got involved with creating schools at every level to try to provide opportunity for populations that experienced discrimination. And because of their commitment and their commitment to quality over a long period of time, those institutions became kind of mainstays of the educational environment. I think that it is still the case that many private Catholic institutions have that kind of welded into their DNA. The thought that we need to be expansively here for all people and that regionally there may be very different populations to serve, but that somehow our mission should be focused on trying to make sure that to the extent we can afford it and that we can find support around it, we are. Making education accessible to people is, I think, a hallmark of our commitment. This is very different for me, from discriminatory or discriminative practices. I mean, the true idea of inclusivity is at the heart of Catholicism, right? Catholic means universal. So it's the universal church expressing itself now through institutions like Gonzaga. To say we want to try to do everything we can to be open to all and to create opportunities that are going to provide the same kind of experience for people, regardless of how they identify and where they come from. Recognizing that the differences are nonetheless real. You know, and if somebody has challenges with the English language, part of our program involves making English language education accessible to them and hopefully allowing them to have greater mastery. If they are coming from a background where they come from poverty or from financial disadvantage, trying to open up opportunities that will allow them nonetheless to participate has been kind of a foundation of what we do. So for me, I think enabling Gonzaga to live out the meaning of that has been super important. And I've been very pleased with the ways in which people have come together to support that. And it is, for me, from a political perspective, it's a bipartisan effort. I think people do fundamentally appreciate the importance of education and its transformative impact. I think they do see that it can change people's lives and that it often does, and that we are really about trying to increase human capability that I think, I hope will remain at the heart of what we do.
[00:34:00] Speaker A: Anything else? In closing, we talked about a lot of different things today. What are you the proudest of? One of the things that, as you reflect back on all of these stories and so many more that we weren't even able to get to.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot. Well, it's a long period of time. Right. I don't know. There's just so many different things that I look back on and I am thankful for. The fundamental posture of a president of a university is to look at the places where the institution isn't succeeding or isn't performing or isn't fulfilling its mission. You spend a lot more time in that problem space, hopefully trying to figure out how to remedy or to assist or support or heal. That's part of the story, too. You know, there's things that happen over time that are difficult. And I suppose at the end of the day, I mean, I am a member of a very large team. We are here to try to help people and experiences occur, you know, as people are participating in this work that are unlooked for or challenging. And some of the successes need to be measured on an individual basis. You know, we've talked a little bit about buildings, and none of those things happened because I alone did anything. We have had tremendous support for all kinds of things that I'm privileged to have been a part of. Similarly, I think about individual human beings and their experiences, and there have been times when people have gone through some pretty rough patches and situations, and to be able to accompany them and to be able to help them along the way, and then ultimately to see them thriving and succeeding is incredibly rewarding, because that's part of what we do. And I think people think about the monolith, and they think about, you know, how much are people making once they graduate and stuff like that. But human life is very complex and it's fragile. There are moments where I've thought to myself, you know, if we don't intervene, this person may cease to exist. You know, there's a very, very real kind of vulnerability that happens at times. And to be there and to be part of a community that comes together and surrounds people and to support them, and that people understand that that's important and that that is part of our work and that has to remain, you know, part of the experience is, I think, super gratifying.
So I just think about a lot of these kinds of things, and it, for me, it just still fundamentally comes down to the. To the importance and the value that we place on individual human beings, that we are a place that I hope never forgets, that that is the core of what we're about.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Dr. Mercollo. For your time today. Stay tuned for the next episode where we will talk through some of the most significant changes occurring in higher ed today. Take a Look back over 16 years. Reflect on what has been great, what could have been better and what the future holds. We'll see you next time. For more four decades at Gonzaga, a conversation with Gonzaga University President Thane McCullough.
